How do you use the comments you get?

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  • @chipwithrow  Mar 11

    Or, do you use them when you're considering how to re-work a song?
    I love getting comments, and because of the nature of FAWM (and as it should be) the comments I get are almost always positive, with some occasional constructive criticism.
    Most of my songs stay just as they are when I post them. I may dust one off to perform it, but out of the hundreds of songs I've written over the years, I have probably re-worked/edited/re-recorded 50 or less.
    But every once in a while I do get a comment that makes me want to make a change - usually a small but valuable one. How about you?

  • @chipwithrow  Mar 11

    Twice this year, I've gotten comments that inspired me to make changes - and not on the song the listener was commenting upon.
    I got a generally positive comment about how a song could use a bridge. Now, that's actually a fairly frequent comment I get. I know what a bridge is, and some of mine have one, some don't. But I was listening to another song of mine in the car today (anyone else listen to their own music in the car?) and I thought of a place in that song where a bridge would work.
    Another commenter had suggestions about my Spanish pronunciation - I'm studying the language, and in the last couple years I've done lots of songs in Spanish. I doubt I'll re-record the song he gave advice on, but I'll likely take more notice of my pronunciation in future Spanish songs.

  • @ayehahmur  Mar 11

    Mostly, I take a little confidence from each comment on a song. Sometimes folk mention things that chime with my aims for the song and I know it's kinda working, while other times you can tell from the things they *don't* say that it's kinda not.
    After two years I still find FAWM comments unusual because I come from a background of strong, constructive criticism. Personally, I'd be happy with a bit more of that, but I know it's not the FAWM way so I'm hoping to get a bit more of that from the Facebook album production group.
    Do I change my tracks? Yeah, they were all rough recordings so I'm pretty much rerecording them all (though I might keep some of the piano takes, we'll see). But not as a result of the feedback, just because they need proper time taken over them to get them to a level for public consumption.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 11

    I love comments at FAWM as they kinda confirm someone actually listened as opposed to the Facebook Like which requires so much less effort!

    But I generally do not like critiques during FAWM and I rarely implement any suggestions. Not because I think I know everything but because it is MY art and either 1) I made it like I want it or 2) I wrote it in a hurry during a songwriting challenge and have not yet had the time to edit it myself!

    Unless specifically requested, I believe critiques are fairly useless at FAWM and actually potentially negative (even when stated kindly). I would never pretend to be qualified to critique the art of someone I only know from a brief interaction on the internet! And there are places online where critiques are available and welcome after you have polished your work and specifically requested critical feedback.

    On the other hand I sure do love when someone mentions something they liked about my music! And that is the spirit in which I give comments.

  • @ustaknow Mar 11

    @chipwithrow it's a great question, and see it from time to time. I think it's helpful to discuss, comment, ask since then in this context, not within a song post one can know what one here may really want. So, I read and accommodate, why not.

    However, regardless of what gets communicated, how read, mis/interpreted, why log into FAWM if not for the *other literal part 1) list the track, *2) comment or not - however one may engage it.

    I've observed many don't define, or well enough what they mean by comment, feedback, constructive input, - in that lies the struggle. There are groups where one can say, all feedback is welcome and 1) it is not, 2) you'd have to "beg" to get any feedback (usually a country culture thing as well, ime).

    I think, imo/ime folks wind up with a following, and a ID follow list of what works - in general.

    However, I believe if one does not like work product, they say nothing. But, I have seen sites where you "suck" is joyfully explained in detail, and ironically - *wrong, fully, to boot (weird how that works).

    I am from a school of thought that one actually learns how to write, "do better art" for themselves by analysis of others since the feedback is 100% about "them", not the "artist". So, if *I like Folk and *I like syncopated pentatonic riffs and *I hear a song I relate to and *I comment on it for "what if this"? Then what is the feedback about? *I, or them? 😝 Uno?

    *I think 😝, again, one needs to take, ~two years, like IRL to see what is actually going on, who's who, what's what and make relationships that work. That Group Formation is no longer taught online, or have not seen it past 2012-ish, so many struggle as they do IRL - ironic, again.

    The reality of today is, online can be more important since may be the first "real" interaction leading then to real FtF, - now. Look at the FAWMstocks, as anecdoctal.

    So I'd say again, this is a great and important question - communication πŸ˜€ you have here.

  • @leomozi  Mar 11

    Comments help me decide whether to keep a song in my repertoire or not, especially when I'm on the fence about said song.

    I love receiving and giving constructive criticism. I've specifically asked for it on some of my songs, pointing out which aspects of the song I'd most like feedback on. But I don't offer criticism on FAWM unless (1) the artists invites it in their bio or liner notes and (2) I like the song enough to think it's worth further work. I see criticism as a gift and an acknowledgement that, "Wow, you've got something really good started. Here's how I think it might become even better." If I don't like a song at all, I say nothing (which is not to say that saying nothing automatically means I don't like the song; sometimes I just don't have a good comment to add). Like @ayehahmur, I wish more FAWMers gave me suggestions, but I understand that most people on here consider that against the spirit of FAWM, and I respect that.

  • @chrishope Mar 11

    I cuddle the printed out archive on really bad nights

  • @johnstaples  Mar 11

    Imagine a painter who has sketched out her painting in pencil and is preparing to begin adding the paint.

    A) you observe what she has created thus far and encourage her to keep creating in whatever way she is inspired

    B) you observe what she has created thus far and, even though you have no idea how your skills/talents might stack up against hers, you tell her you think she should use blue paint because you think blue paint is great or lots of your favorite painters use blue paint or whatever drives your preference for blue paint

    To me, A is useful/inspiring/encouraging while B is actually the opposite! A encourages her to create while B seems to want to collaborate! 😁

  • @johnstaples  Mar 11

    I don't even understand why anyone would want to critique a draft (unless you are my teacher!)

  • @ayehahmur  Mar 11

    @johnstaples There's a time when constructive criticism is more useful and a time when it's inappropriate. For those that seek out the opinions of others, the sketch stage is probably too early and, conversely, waiting til it's hanging on the gallery wall is way too late, but once they've progressed it to a stage where it's definitely their own thing but they really want a steer on whether to go with cobalt blue or cerulean blue for the sky, then it may be useful.
    But not everyone needs or wants criticism at any stage, and that's fine too. We're all different. πŸ˜€

  • @quork  Mar 11

    I love this he positive reinforcement of positive comments and enjoy constructive criticism- I specifically ask for it on my profile page. For me constructive criticism is β€œhere’s how I think your song could be better.” I appreciate that someone enjoyed the song enough to listen critically and I like hearing their perspective on how it could be improved. I will always consider the suggestion and feel no obligation to do anything about it.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 11

    @ayehahmur said "There's a time when constructive criticism is more useful and a time when it's inappropriate...the sketch stage is probably too early" and that is exactly my point! FAWM is all about songs written very fast (sometimes as quick as an hour in skirmishes) and without much in the way of polish or editing. Hence, they are sketches in the truest sense of the word!

    With that said, anyone who wants critiques is free to request them although the overall spirit of FAWM is such that not many will give them (partly because we understand this is draft work and partly because who has time for useful critiquing when we have 14 songs to write! 😁)

  • @ayehahmur  Mar 11

    Sweet. *High-FAWM-fives!

  • @chrishope Mar 11

    aye @johnstaples aye

  • @zecoop  Mar 11

    I listen to any and all comments from my collaborators. Those are really the only comments that have any chance to impact a song. All other comments are great and I appreciate people leaving them and listening. My songs have always been written for myself, in the style that is making me happy at the time. Once I finish a song here on FAWM, they rarely if ever get re-recorded. They will get re-mixed the first part of March and put on Bandcamp. After that, they are timepieces that don't change.

    So, I'm in the same place as @johnstaples in some ways, in that I only ever leave positive feedback. The difference is that my songs are not really bare bones sketches, since I write only music and build them up one part at a time. Often they are quite intricate and can't really be changed easily anyway. It doesn't matter if someone else has a constructive criticism or if I, myself, have one about my song. At that point, generally I couldn't easily change it, so it stays the same. I have made changes to songs based on a collaborator's needs - that's pretty much the only time that happens. πŸ˜€

  • @leomozi  Mar 11

    We'll have to agree to disagree here. I'd be happy to take constructive criticism on both sketches and polished work, and from either Tom Waits (please, Tom!) or my four-year-old son (and, believe me, my son is happy to give it).

    That said, I think the only suggestions I've offered on FAWM have been along the lines of when somebody says, "I'm not sure if this is good enough to keep," and I say, "It's awesome and I think you should keep it!"

  • @dragondreams  Mar 11

    I take any form of criticism really badly and sulk for weeks. πŸ˜‚
    Seriously, I read all comments. It's my choice whether I act on them if they include suggestions. I'm usually just gobsmacked that people take the time to listen to my bizarre twiddlings in the first place, so all comments are gratefully received! 😊

  • @chipwithrow  Mar 11

    Everyone so far has made an insightful comment, and @chrishope sure made me smile! (So now I'm commenting on comments!)
    How many comments a song gets doesn't affect how I feel about it. My personal favorites resonate with me in ways I often can't explain.
    And the changes I may make to my songs are usually self-discovered. I'll decide a certain line is too hard to sing, or I'll change the tempo or even the genre (made a recent change of an old favorite from country-folk to reggae!).
    Comments that mean a lot to me are those when my song makes a personal connection to the listener. And I appreciate the three comparisons I got to Lou Reed, since I've long admired him but never thought of myself as much like him!

  • @berni1954  Mar 11

    I have had so many people suggest little tweaks in a song that have improved lines beyond measure both at FAWM and beyond it. I definitely think constructive comments are useful and I welcome them. I am with those of you who said such comments show the person really listened.

    When I am listening to songs by others, if I like a song and a tweak occurs to me that I feel would improve it, then I often offer such comments myself. I had never really questioned (until this thread) that such comments might be unwelcome. I thought one of the things about a songwriting community was that our work (even in draft form) is getting evaluated by our peers and that is invaluable in any field, surely? As someone says above, you can always ignore it if you disagree with the suggestion.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 11

    I think I am probably more or less on the same page as @johnstaples on this one; I am creating sketches. I may wish to go back and do more with a given song (in which case I generally note that when I post it!) but I don't generally find requests to add verses/bridges/ etc all that helpful because (especially with lyrics being my first step in writing, typically) I would have written those extra lyrics or extra section if I had wanted it! πŸ˜€ But yeah, I find the comments help me understand what others are hearing in what I do, and they do help me keep on chugging with the music creating, as well as the internal urge to create.

    I always am amused when I get a comparison to Nirvana or They Might Be Giants, as neither group are exactly among my top musical influences but I can totally see why I get those comparisons, even so.

  • @quork  Mar 11

    @berni1954, on one of my tracks you mentioned you thought the mandolin could be louder in the mix. I listened and fully agreed with you (and appreciated your comment).

  • @coolparadiso  Mar 12

    I never seek constructive criticism in this environment. In others with some key people i do. however, i listen to all comments here and elsewhere and put those comments through my normal filter but sometimes one hits on something As @johnstaples mentioned its very hard to give constructive criticism if you dont know a person well, now what they were trying to acheive with the song etc. really its often just opinion.

  • @mikedebenham  Mar 12

    I think the rough demo stage can be a good time for constructive criticism, before the song's fully set in stone. If someone chimes in with something I already suspected, it's a good sign it needs fixing. So I always welcome critical comments, but don't by any means expect them - February's generally too busy to allow that level of engagement with every song. The default at FAWM is simple encouragement and appreciation, and that's great too.

    Unless invited, I too tend to save more critical feedback for people I've come to know. You get a feel for who welcomes that level of feedback and who finds it discouraging.

  • @musicsongwriter Mar 12

    I think it's good to go by supportive feel and offer constructive criticism if it's asked in liner notes or on forum. I am grateful to songwriters who share with me their thoughts and suggestions. Tim helped me hear my music from a different perspective which lead me to change instrumentation and dynamics. Donna sent me her email where she gave me brilliant advice on one of my lyrics including a much better title. Thank you both and thank you to everyone for listening and commenting. It is very helpful to see how music or lyrics are perceived.

  • @guatecoop  Mar 12

    I do receive some valuable feedback, but I ask for it. Typically it is about mixing, which is the biggest challenge to do in a hurry. Like others said, I do appreciate general positive comments, but they don’t sway me whether I like a song or not. I already have ideas about what I’m going to do and really never hear too many suggestions about how a song should go, but I do instrumental music and I think that lyrics lend themselves to that type of critique. I’m glad that people don’t mention missed notes and such, as that is just a given for me, as I am in a hurry and don’t know the song or part long enough to master it. I do listen in the car, as well!

  • @timfatchen  Mar 12

    I, too, cuddle the printout archive, indeed archives, when things are going badly which seems more often than not these last few years. But while FAWM is running, the comments people are kind enough to make tend to be taken (by me) simply as encouragement/support. But later, ah, later I go through them ever so carefully and I appreciate the insights and feedback and sometimes suggestions that come through. Because I've then had time to listen and listen and think about the tracks I created (or I and others created). Changes in lyrics, changes in instrumentation, changes in approach--I take what everyone says seriously, even though theyr'e rarely critiques (though often there's constructive--not "criticism" so much, as helpful suggestion). In the end many of my tracks end up as commercial. Or, semi-commercial in that they make a small amount of money...! And the comments help. I do offer constructive suggestion when I think it's warranted. But full critiques--hoo boy, it's a COLD

  • @timfatchen  Mar 12

    I, too, cuddle the printout archive, indeed archives, when things are going badly which seems more often than not these last few years. But while FAWM is running, the comments people are kind enough to make tend to be taken (by me) simply as encouragement/support. But later, ah, later I go through them ever so carefully and I appreciate the insights and feedback and sometimes suggestions that come through. Because I've then had time to listen and listen and think about the tracks I created (or I and others created). Changes in lyrics, changes in instrumentation, changes in approach--I take what everyone says seriously, even though theyr'e rarely critiques (though often there's constructive--not "criticism" so much, as helpful suggestion). In the end many of my tracks end up as commercial. Or, semi-commercial in that they make a small amount of money...! And the comments help. I do offer constructive suggestion when I think it's warranted. But full critiques--hoo boy, it's a COLD

  • @timfatchen  Mar 12

    ...COLD world outside FAWM and genuine criticism, even constructive, is an ego shock. Once outside, everyone will hate your music and criticise. Even those who actually like it! Time enough for ego-bruising and soul-stamping outside FAWM as regards critiques!

  • @donna  Mar 12

    I simply savour them. πŸ˜‰ They're always positive; they're precious to me; and they inspire and motivate me. It doesn't get better than that. πŸ˜€

    (On my profile page, I indicate that I don't want critiques. My lyrics are always quickly written first drafts, and I go elsewhere post-FAWM for constructive criticism. After that, I do the hard work, which is revising and fine-tuning the lyrics.)

  • @chipwithrow  Mar 12

    A couple of you mentioned how you take constructive criticism better from FAWMers you've come to know. Agree. Usually, though, those I've come to know well - and who know me and my music - are more likely to give encouragement, along the lines of telling me I should perform a song or maybe add a certain instrument or two.
    My best experience with re-working songs came from face-to-face sessions with a fellow songwriter (not a FAWMer) who became a good friend. As a pianist, and a real student of pop/Top 40 music going back to the '70s, he had some interesting ideas I just never would have thought of.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    I wrote...a LOT at first, then erased (that's why you'll see the two posts below that I made).
    To sum it all up - I can relate to everything all of you have said in favor and not so in favor of critiques.
    I like critiques - because I know that in this specific community, people aren't here to be jerks and put you down - its actually meant to be constructive, if given.
    But I know the nature of FAWM specifically is encouragement to get through these 14 tracks - to help people along and be supportive.
    Its ALL good!
    To answer the question - I cherish the comments, that's what I do with them. I read them over and over. Like that note that girl gave you in class that said she likes you lol
    Seriously - the engagement...that is what I love about FAWM. I get little outside of this and other challenges, and the FB music group I'm in. So I eat it up. The comments are very important to me.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    eh..deleted this - as I was rambling on.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    eh...deleted this - as I was rambling on.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    And @timfatchen is so right - its a COLD world out there...the music world. Cut-throat, dishonest, dog-eat-dog, harsh, can't stand the heat get out the kitchen kind of world.
    The other kind of coldness is the vast, lonely cold you feel when there is NO engagement, positive or negative. I've gotten rejections before, but I have to say it feels worse when there's just no reaction/engagement at ALL.
    Yeah, that's worse.

  • @rainchaser  Mar 12

    I love getting comments from everyone! Most of them are positive with a bit of critiques. The positives are very inspiring and surprising to hear!! I find critiques helpful as well but at most times I know what I'm doing, and knew how the song churn out to realized I don't really need a critique on it. Most of my songs aren't drafts, but I I'm still open to critiques to them. However, I prefer to take that advice and apply it to a new song as oppose to the one I just posted on FAWM a few minutes ago.

  • @mikeskliar  Mar 12

    very interesting thread. I like comments, and yes, i like constructive criticism. For me, alot of what I do is lyric driven, and it's useful for me to hear if someone 'gets what i was trying to say' and/or 'does it work' for them. Of course, in the end, we all do this in some part for ourselves, but its even more fun if I've communicated something I was thinking or feeling and it perhaps resonates with others. As far as the recording quality, 'its a demo' I think we all know that, and i've rarely gotten specific feedback on 'the mix is off, etc.' (tho these can be helpful too, sometimes) rock on, everyone, it's a great site and a great community!

  • @tcelliott  Mar 12

    I'm super blessed to get as many comments as I do. Even as I know I'm failing at reciprocating as much as I should. And while there have been a couple of comments that bugged me, the vast majority are fine. Whether they are criticism or encouragement. It's fun to go back and read the comments. But even when I have good intentions of taking the suggestions and using them, typically I fail to do anything with them other than feel good. But then, that's the most important thing to do. Bask in the community that is this great.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    Curious - what kinds of comments bug you, @tcelliott...or anyone else who has had this happen?

  • @tcelliott  Mar 12

    Two kinds. The first, which I'm not really complaining about, is the one or two word comment. "Nice" or something similar. And oddly enough, sometimes it bothers me more than other times. And I've been guilty of the brief comment on more than one occasion but I at least try to say something.

    And then the second is when people tell me what I should do. I usually don't mind criticism even if I disagree with it. I completely understand where @johnstaples is coming from, but for me if something works or doesn't work for a listener then I'd usually like to know that. But don't tell me I should make it a different genre. Don't tell me I should go learn some mixing technique. And don't tell me what to do. Maybe it's splitting hairs. If someone says "have you thought about..." that gets me thinking. If someone says "You need to do...." that makes me annoyed.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 12

    I agree with @tcelliott 100%! When someone states that something is wrong (or implies it by stating this or that *needs* changing) those comments usually annoy me. But to be honest I only get two or three per FAWM so it is not a problem per se.

    As I've said, I would never presume to think I know enough about someone's skills, time constraints, intentions, etc. as to offer critiques during a songwriting challenge! Even if someone asks for critiques I don't give 'em! I'm here to write songs and provide support and encouragement! 😁

  • @darcistrutt  Mar 12

    I state up front that I don't intend to make money from my songwriting. I've had some comments still that were negative, though very rare, and they can make me question my worthiness to post. Positive comments keep me writing and singing. If someone said they laughed out loud then I beam inside and feel like my art has made a positive difference. Any comment means someone has listened so I'll even take a "Nice". If I'm thinking I'll perform something in the real world (that 'cold' one) I have asked for more serious evaluation. Mostly I'm hoping I'll get better on my own if I continue to listen and continue to write. Getting positive encouraging words keeps me coming back and practicing my craft. Practicing is what this is about for me!

  • @leomozi  Mar 13

    @tcelliott, I think you’re right on with suggestions vs. commands. We’re all peers in this settingβ€” regardless of differences in talent, skill, knowledge, and experienceβ€” so it’s better to frame things with humility, like, β€œHere’s how I reacted to this song as a listener,” not, β€œHere’s what I know that you don’t.”

    As for what bugs me, @splittybooms, I do get a tad annoyed when I put something in the liner notes stating that I’m only posting a partial song for now because it was for a skirmish and I’m already running over time, and someone says, β€œThis is great, but it’s too short.” But not too annoyed, because if they really disliked it they would’ve thanked me for making it so short. πŸ˜‰

  • @guatecoop  Mar 13

    Oh my @leomozi people say that? I might say that it is a great foundation and that I look forward to hearing the finished product. Maybe they mean that you left them pining for more! Hehe. Too short.

  • @dragondreams  Mar 13

    I'm with @tcelliott on the not being told what to do. Especially comments about the mix. C'mon, the track was put together in less than a day. Of course the mix will have issues. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

  • @ajna1960 Mar 13

    @chrishope oh my !

  • @jmadison  Mar 13

    I'm finally chiming in on this thread.

    I love the comments I receive, and I need the comments too. For me, music is a hobby, and I want to share it with others. But I have no music training at all, no real band experience, and I just started learning about mixing a little over a year ago. So, I thrive on the encouragement.

    So far on FAWM, I've only had a few comments that to me were basically gentle suggestions, and I really did appreciate those. Interestingly, those suggestions were things that I already suspected, so I took them as assurance. e.g. "Your vocals are kind of quiet; I'd like to hear them more". And I already kind of knew that... But the assurance helps me to work on that when I remix, or do another song.

    A super big THANK YOU to everyone who stopped to give my stuff a listen. You folks are amazing. πŸ˜€

  • @ustaknow Mar 13

    One could build a curriculum on, "commenting" from this thread, (group formation). Good stuff. Things folks tend to forget, little things, - the internet is global and not everyone speaks English the same way, meaning, bluntness that's really not there - their native tongue structures it that way, so spoken that way in anglesh πŸ˜€ Always assume the best first is a good general rule; it's saved me a few times in both directions.

    And, while not a problem here, the internet is predatory, selling, trolling, controlling, sometimes very assistive. No one's gonna sell much here in 28 days, new every year, so, that's helpful.

    However, some folks are not as savvy as others, even here (the thread about Internet B-day). I've seen allot but not everything, thank God πŸ˜€ But I have seen folks drift to other Boards after here (FAWM, other), and sincere to learn and the - THREE or even SIX year *EXPERTS? pounce πŸ˜€ 😝 -- yeah, "I been a do'ing this for a full 6 years now..., uh huh..." πŸ˜€ (sarcasm, for ESL folks πŸ˜€ ) I do tend to watch and did see a few folks take their bad advice, and today - don't write, or "do" music anymore; sad sad sad. I see how it happens and to long for here, but it comes down to a few things folks don't really need to hear again, not from me. I am reading it in this thread - so that's a great thing.

    The most valid comments of value I read here, are the ones where - "yeah I thought that too, glad someone commented it to me".

  • @ustaknow Mar 13

    So concerning context, - I'm not, as anyone knows, not here to impress or sell, can't friend me, can't buy anything from me; - I know music goes in cycles, tastes shift. A while ago preFAWM I was staying current on theory at Edinburg Univ Online and other and was getting critique from folks who preferred death-metal, or polka and did not know or learn how to Analyse music for comment - my stuff sucked πŸ˜‰ yeah yeah OK πŸ˜€. Then, I found in different countries folks who did like it and could properly Analyse/comment music - deconstructed for it's elements. Seems the Italians and Austrians/Germans tended to like my stuff, and had some good analysis/comment training since some were death metal, classics musicians πŸ˜€

    I don't like polka, but do know a good'n when I hear it 😝 and know how to deconstruct if for analysis. I learned more about song writing, deconstructing others work than I did from anything else - aside from writing every day and musicating it.

    So, in sort of conclusion on this - I do pay attention to what folks say, and hey, - don't like comments, pay attention to them, don't, or be brief, "nice one" 😝 However, when I get "nice one" from a follower, I know what they mean or then *ask later, offline πŸ˜€ time permitting. Build a follow(ed) list, best thing and makes new friends every FAWM - so many drop off, what's your choice!

  • @chipwithrow  Mar 13

    I'm going to give my comments today and tomorrow to people who have posted here, since it's such an active thread!
    @leomozi Regarding songs being too short - if I do a FAWM song longer than 3 and a half minutes, I consider that a long one! And I love both creating and listening to songs in the two-minute range - one can say and do a lot in two minutes, and maybe that makes the listener long to hear the song again or to hear more by that artist.
    My short songs do tend to go longer when I perform them. Even as a solo guitar/vocal guy, I'm pretty good at stretching out a song Grateful Dead-style.

  • @mikeskliar  Mar 13

    @chipwithrow - your comment reminded me of two stories - first, (who knows if this is true, but i did hear it ) for the album 'time out of mind' Bob Dylan recorded a song that was something like 19 minutes long or something- some record company exec asked him 'is there a short version of that' and Bob replied 'that WAS the short version' ... and I realize one reason I loved playing 1973-74 Grateful Dead tapes in the car way back when for long car rides- three tunes and you're there (of course that could be two and a half hours later!)... πŸ˜€ anyway, back to commenting on comments... -- hmm, it's rare that I didn't appreciate a comment, tho I guess that's possible. anyway, hope we all stay active here just a little bit longer πŸ˜€

  • @darcistrutt  Mar 14

    @mikeskliar I still go to the song page for the Open Mic at Castle Dragondreams and reread the comments just to remember the experience of being part of the party. I see your name and think β€œNew York’s in the House”. Comments are how we greet each other in this space sometimes. Suddenly I’m thinking of the Star Trek episode where the alien people spoke in stories. Our stories are often in lyrics and comments. It’s our connection.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 15

    @darcistrutt I love that episode!
    And regarding the things that bug you all, it all makes a lot of sense to me.
    I asked because sometimes I wonder about what I'm saying to someone here; how they might take it. When I've said "can't wait to hear when its out of demo" in the past, I thought it about it after and wondered - what if it IS the final version? I've just told them that it sounds like a demo when they may see it as done. I don't think that has ever actually been the case, but still.
    Anyway, this has been an interesting and enlightening convo! Many different views.
    And @ustaknow, "nice one" πŸ˜€ lol j/k We've talked about that before - I share that boat with you and @tcelliott. But at the same time, I guess the person didn't have to even bother with that, coulda just kept truckin'. I dunno...I guess its ALL good to me. Then again, I haven't gotten the 'you sucks' yet...only cause i haven't put myself out there in a bright enough light.

  • @quork  Mar 16

    @splittybooms I love your comments, whether on my songs, others’ songs or on these threads. You are positive and supportive and you come across as really having listened to the music and thought about how it makes you feel. Keep on doing what you’re doing.

  • @billwhite51 Mar 17

    i dont think in terms of positive or negative. . i simply try to describe my reaction to the song.

  • @ustaknow Mar 17

    Hey @billwhite51 - yup, indeed. Same page.

    And, chips thesis is "How do you use the comments you get?" - nothing +- about that at all, it just is what it is. Moreover, it is/would inherently be positive since then, if folks got pulled into that, I, we, all could then consider "that". Folks would read that and use it, communicate further on "that".

    However, inevitably folks read "that" thesis and "hear", ? "do you like, want, value comments" - it seems. And then that separate thread thesis hijacks the "what do you do with them". Different question? And then the folks who like/dislike that skew, well, - join in or then leave the thread and it becomes a redundant status quo question asked many times through the year. I am reading identical content from identical sources I've read already, - mine included! And, so it goes it seems, mm by mm, hopefully forward, not reverse.

    Folks who want comments and want to learn how to provide them or as important, - receive them, process them, value them, fold them into their work product are then deprived of that "curriculum", "here" (and here is special, isn't it, or we want it to fall off into status quo of internet grey?). There's a whollotta really, really, really smart folks here who may then ramp onto that and advance "how-to" write "music/songs/their-art". But, that gets, -- again hi-jacked by "don't want'em, need'em, like'em, respect'em as qualified in any way as they define that, hear it, deploy it. Different question?

    So for example, I know how you use my comments and you know how I use yours. AND we have a shorthand now after a year or two to just "drop it", or as important, "just do it" and see... (see) - as "new" to do.

    - Correct?

    Let me offer that I am sure I have annoyed (so to speak) you, Splitty, Chip, etc., however? What? And? So what? And then? 😝

    It'd be great to develop this good thesis w/o the I don't like'em, but here's how I use, hear, would like, teach-me, whattaUthink -isms? πŸ˜€ Different question?

  • @jamkar  Mar 19

    FAWM family are the only ones who care enough to comment on my songs. So I take that as a positive.

  • @chipwithrow  Mar 19

    @ustaknow - You're right that this thread has elements of the "how to give comments" or "kind of comments I like/don't like to get" threads that often pop up. And that's all good and valid information, no matter how many times it gets discussed. Answers and opinions evolve, new people enter the conversation, etc.
    I posed my original question because I was in the process of re-evaluating my songs and deciding what to do with them. And in the week since I started the thread my answer has evolved from "I appreciate comments but don't really make changes based upon them" into something else that I think I may try to articulate later today. Turns out I do make use of the comments I receive, and in fact make use of the comments I give, too.

  • @ustaknow Mar 19

    Chip, - yes, indeed πŸ˜€

    And, yes, it's very interesting, all of it.

    - So, this is a great time to the consider/compare the metalfoot comment *here and/versus the then necessary question in his new *thread about his coffeehouse, and what to do (?). Is there a correlation? I think so. Reconsider use, processing of comment? Maybe 😝

    As you say above in your last paragraph, - and - if I followed you more closely, as e.g., and then asked what metalfoot did, I, we, all? could - give more meaninful answers, - or - as e.g. - "he" could process them more efficiently since "knows" what I, you, all? may mean when they say, e.g. "pick your best three songs".

    Compare those perfectly fine answers, if not predictable, to, e.g., "mine"? Oh, yes 😝 I am different. But not for "difference" sake, - empirical, quantitative - difference. And, that is where his as e.g. question comes from, and from where he/one seeks a usable answer? (Not predictable status quo, internet-grey)

    After years "here", - to ask a "what should I do" question, and get told "pick your three best", - is not what I'd expect to read about πŸ˜€ "here", so to speak. I'd expect to then ask, communicate with new to me folks what they mean so I could understand. After hours of skirmishes and collabs? Hundreds of lines of communication text?

    - So, "me", eh, not important, but that is what I've been speaking too πŸ˜€ Quality/Quantity/Usefulness

    I always consider that the "answer" I get that I am the most *clueless about*, (WTF?! 😝 ) - may BE "the" answer since, - is what I am most clueless about and therefore had to ask the question anyway?

    - One qualifier here before I end; I believe metalfoot asked a genuine question. He, unlike "some" was not then pointing to a "show/CD/buy-this" from me item as is a Marketing Tactic; - the big picture 30K Ft view I take as well as the 1mm view as others may πŸ˜€ may not? Who knows!

    -- It's just muZik~

  • @lowhum Mar 19

    I like this story about an ancient Russian zen monk approached by his disciple:
    "Master, I just got this new book on zen, what should I do with it?"
    "Hang it in the toilet and put it into some purpose!"

  • @siebass Mar 19

    I'll say I use them to feel better about what I've written, and also to take heart knowing that someone took time out of their day to listen to something I've created. That is one of the hardest things to gain from the collective void of the internet; an attentive listen. You even get proof of it in the form of a comment; what could be better than that?

  • @johnstaples  Mar 19

    I guess my final comment would be something like this...

    The anger fevers an identical revenue. The ascending gun turns within the apart prerequisite. The lawn calculates throughout the projected ghost. A pro void rises a forced melody. When will the plus eye refer to the toast?

    Around the disease swears the exam. An inherited reactor bends a bean. The innocence doles the silver width. A starved murder follows the wise metal. The magnificent mark awaits a coincidence. An onion revolts throughout the bulletin!

    A screen dashes below an identifier! How can a socialist ascend? The asset accompanies the acquired plague behind a wisdom. Why does the stereo dress the feasible doctrine? The ash reverts!

    Why does this maker progress? In the tunnel rests the full offset. How can the missile band a plague? The suggested shadow pinches an optic. Beside the girlfriend pops the blurb. The romantic noun surrounds a lecturer in the gorgeous maze.

    The elected lesbian trips. The street examines your inspired glance. Near the baffle laughs the kitchen. A pregnant march humbles the doctrine within his wasting overhead.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 19

    Sarcasm aside, the text above was generated by a cool tool that would have come in quite handy during the songwriting frenzy of last month! Check it out,

  • @siebass Mar 19

    I think @johnstaples found Cake's lyric generator...

  • @johnstaples  Mar 19

    @siebass I swear there are some pretty good lyric ideas in there!

  • @johnstaples  Mar 19

    gorgeous maze
    suggested shadow
    A starved murder
    ascending gun
    projected ghost

  • @tcelliott  Mar 20

    inspired glance
    the doctrine within
    forced melody
    around the disease

    At the very least these seem to be a good starting point for some free writing to see where in the heck they lead.

    (Free writing is where you put pen/pencil to paper and keep writing for a set time without stopping for anything and then go back to see what you can use including rhyming pairs etc., - I think some folk in this thread use the technique.)

  • @siebass Mar 20

    @johnstaples and @tcelliott , definitely some interesting couplets, pregnant March as well. You could certainly petition to add it to the muse tools, as I tend to write a few songs based on the contraints of automatically generated progression, structure, title, lyric-cloud, etc. That tool could replace the lyric cloud for the words needed to be used. Plus, now I'm imagining a build-a-bear competitor, bend-a-bean, taking malls by storm.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 20

    pregnant March just triggered Expecting Rain so I'll be working on that one really soon!

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