Do you leave your drafts up?

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  • @splittybooms  Mar 10

    So I have my FAWM stuff on soundcloud.
    I want to kinda take it down soon so its not 'out there' unfinished, and because soundcloud sucks.
    Do you folks who also have your FAWM stuff there keep it there until you release your official album? Or do you take it down after FAWM?
    I want people who hang around to still be able to hear my stuff if they stumble upon it, so I don't really wanna take it down.
    Last year I had no intentions of releasing anything officially, so I didn't have to deal with it.
    Wat do?

  • @ajna1960 Mar 10

    Some people I know create 2 SC accounts. One for roughs, such as quick takes for FAWM, and one for completed album ready tracks.
    Alternatively, you could label the unfinished tracks 'rough demo'.
    I work professionally as a lyricist, but I have all sorts on my SC page lol However, on my website etc, I only put completed ready to pitch songs.

  • @tcelliott  Mar 10

    What Amanda said. I leave everything up on my "crap" account (Pigfarmer Jr) until I run out of space. Then I delete the oldest stuff to make more room.

  • @quork  Mar 10

    I’m a long way from trying to commercialize my stuff, so it’s rough demos all the way. If I get around to re-recording them I’ll probably pull the rougher drafts.

  • @musicsongwriter Mar 10

    On Bandcamp it's very easy to swap the files so whenever I have the chance to change/redo, etc. my music/songs I just swap the files.

  • @wobbiewobbit  Mar 10

    i am even worse than that and put all but the worst demos on my website... but i dont mind the scruffy sketchbook nature of it.. though i sometimes wonder if i should rethink that... i just cant help being scruffy

  • @guatecoop  Mar 10

    I need to record mine again if I’m going to do anything with it. Yes, SoundCloud stinks. I leave up my stuff on fawm yes. This is more for writing than anything. It would be recorded again in a band setting if anything

  • @zecoop  Mar 10

    All my demos stay up here. I do remix a few times and put the improved mixes up on my bandcamp album, but my FAWM page keeps the songs up as long as the website is here (until next year). I don't ever (or haven't yet) re-recorded songs - I generally consider them complete when I do them the first time. πŸ˜€

  • @timfatchen  Mar 10

    on soundcloud, I leave them up. THen of course run out of room and remove the older (with a few exceptions). Fully worked up stuff goes on CD and digital distribution, hence Spotify, or into library/licensing or RPG. Different audiences. I haven't really got my Bandcamp accounts properly sorted or working.

  • @darcistrutt  Mar 11

    I’m one of those folks still listening so hopefully most people leave demos available. I donate the $25 and use FAWM hosting for the challenge. I put limited songs up on SoundCloud that I want to share with non FAWMers. I remember a few folks deleting their demos one year or locking before I had the chance to listen and felt sad I missed them. I’m not making my living from my music so not the best judge though.

  • @mikeb Mar 11

    I take any song that will be fully 'released' off of soundcloud fairly quickly, usually everything at some point - as I have had a lot of tracks 'stolen' from there - copied and offered for sale on Asian web sites.

  • @chrishope Mar 11

    i've started putting ( some fawm msg or demo) in brackets, but its a great question right to the heart of what is a proper song, what am i presenting, to who etc... the minefield of trying to be professional ??,

  • @haim  Mar 11

    @mikeb thats interesting, can u elaborate?
    I also take out songs that i think will be fully released. I make them "Private" on soundcloud.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 12

    Thanks for all the insights.
    @mikeb brings up a good point - there are shady goings-ons at times with stuff posted on soundcloud. I have googled myself and in the results are webistes that sound all kinds of suspect. I've never visited any of them for security reasons, but these sites probably rip music from soundcloud and repost them on their crappy sites.
    To have them selling your stuff, though...that sucks, Mike - makes me wonder if that's just happening to everyone who posts on soundcloud and the majority of folks just never find out.
    Anyway, I'll prob just keep stuff up til the end of March. Can we edit the links now that FAWM is over? I could make them all private and just edit the link to the private link...

  • @paulhenry  Mar 12

    It’s a media free-for-all out there. Like @darcistrutt, I use FAWM file hosting. It will all be gone in a year when they reset for the next FAWM. I only use SoundCloud for roughs. I don’t care who listens/steals them. I have statutory copyright, so when someone starts making millions off my work, I’ll worry about it then. Otherwise, meh.

  • @ustaknow Mar 12

    I have 2 - SC accounts but only as, - to be "like a 3rd backup" - redundant, for *ideas. However, they are all marked Private. (I know the Harmonica Compilation, "Riff Challenge" from 2 years ago? is Public stuff like that. I assume πŸ˜€ it's all anyone sees, hahhh. I never checked - time to get another account? πŸ˜€

    So, while there this week, rabbit trail coming since following train of thought and answering what to do?!? --- someone messaged me there, which never happens, ever, but did this week, --- so, I then, hung around and clicked through "stuff". And this is why I leave it there, Private, --- I stumbled onto some NAF (Native American Flute) stuff I did and was like "who the heck is this" πŸ˜€ (was good)... so, I had forgotten I had reached a level of proficiency, thought *little* of it then, way to critical, but got a nice jolt back this week, - so to speak. Anyone can relate to that? Old recordings found not half as bad as you ever thought?

    So, then I flipped through real real time cell phone tracks, and again, get a nice very neutral listen of my stuff as if was one of you guys 😝

    So, this ties into the other Thread here about "Feedback", -- then I know for sure who's lie-ing or not πŸ˜€ Or, I hear an initial way/melody for a song I still do PRIOR to it getting "overworked" with how it should be and hit those dynamics again, bring'em back.

    Now, if SC ever got nuked and may be a one and only of an initial track, -- oh well, how much krappe can you keep backed up and for what? Not to sound "dark" but, ever have a Family Member pass on? I am sentimental and do love to read, and etc. But, after a quick skim I put several 1/2 in Drill bit holes through the HD, split the cases, loosed the disks and said, Amen!

    The tech footprint some may leave it huge - just ask FaceBook since they been archiving "you", forever πŸ˜€

    But, I digress; I still had 5.25 Floppies 😝 to boot a DOS box with; and 3.5 unopen boxes of floppies. Yeah, time for a time machine garage sale.

  • @mikeb Mar 13

    I have a radio show broadcast that I did - interview and a few songs, both live and from one of my cds. I found the whole 30+ minute song file for sale on an Asian site, along with a few other songs I had posted on SC. This was several years ago, but I started taking files down form there after a period of time. Of course thes sites could just easily rip the songs form other streaming sources - like Bandcamp, or even spotify, etc - but SC seems like an easy target for them. AND what's annoying is the SC files are very low resolution after SC does its compression algorithm on them (unless you pay for premium service) - so these copies aren't even GOOD copies!

  • @ustaknow Mar 15

    It looks a little like the focus shifted to soundcloud issues, above.

    (First, @splittybooms -- I really do like your stuff and you are one of my favorite folks to communicate with here and there. I say this due to this thread and others I've read your comments in. You let people, be "them", - always a good thing to let "me" be "me", "you" be "you".) So...

    And, anyway, - no surprise to some, I do see things differently from most, when it comes to how others view issues of any kind; it's how I make a living 😝

    So, firstly again πŸ˜€ , what "bothers me", is if I do "something" and I am not Credited, properly, or at all, - and that has happened, *here*, there, etc., etc. I tend to let it go, especially after saying, "hey, you overlooked this... etc.?" Having been a lifelong Consultant, if even Staff (hard to explain), -- I am used to have my work show up with others names on it 😝 That work won't be Blessed then anyway, - so again, tend to let it go.

    But, my point here today, yes, keep it to one point πŸ˜€ ---- relevant to the above about SoundCloud is,
    --- yes, it's allot easier to rip an mp3 and on SC.

    *But*, my thinking on that is,
    --- if I ever wake up one morning, and all of southeast asia, the "soviet" -union (?) πŸ˜€ hahhh, all of china, s. america, or even the USA have my song streaming to them, - for *free* I'll be a pretty happy camper 😝 Think about it for a minute, what that means?
    (And some "n. korean" -hacker?, did it for you for free to boot! πŸ˜€ )

    Possibly, if that above ever happens, and it could! πŸ˜‰ I am sure I'll be getting a few phone calls! $ is the sole driver, and all they need to see is a kazillion thiefs stealing my music; well, so long as they DO properly CREDIT me! Geese!

    -- See, that's when it's important πŸ˜‰ hahhh. So, steal my work if you must, but properly credit me! πŸ˜€

  • @mikeb Mar 15

    @ustaknow - what I found was my songs were on 'pay to download' sites, not streaming ones. That may have changed in recent years, I haven't searched to find out.

  • @splittybooms  Mar 15

    People'll steal anything that isn't nailed down... Then they'll steal whatever its nailed down to. lol
    I sometimes joke that "I'm a phenomenon in Japan!" because my music was ripped and played all over the country over there and everyone loves splittybooms! lolol (actually, that would be really cool)
    @ustaknow hey I appreciate that, man - whenever I see you pop up it gives me a good feeling to see a familiar "face" (screen name), and someone I know will give me the nitty gritty when it comes to my stuff and no fluff, as that is not "you" being "you" aka - ain't yo' style.
    @paulhenry I'm curious - is that something you setup yourself, or do you use something distrokid (etc) who sets that stuff up for you?

  • @fourzeroes  Mar 16

    Anything I put on Soundcloud that's not finished/permanent I put on their "share private link" mode so it can be posted/embedded where I want (I hope) and not stumbled across by accident.

  • @paulhenry  Mar 18

    @splittybooms, I'm not sure what you mean. I donate to FAWM at the start of the month. In return they give me file hosting space. I put up my output for the month there. It'll disappear next February, so I don't worry about it. I live in the US, where I have statutory copyright protection. The moment I finish a song I possess the copyright. I don't have to do anything. The problem comes if I have to prove ownership in court. I can produce witnesses, dated drafts, dated recordings, etc. Or, I can formally register your copyright by mailing/emailing a form off to the Library of Congress. In other words, I already own the copyright to my songs, but registering that copyright makes proof in court much easier. And, of course, it allows for that right to be shared/transferred, so intellectual property can be treated like a commodity. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is debatable.

    One thing I don't know is whether one should add a formal copyright notice with each song, say in the liner notes or at the bottom of the lyrics. Anyone know?

  • @splittybooms  Mar 19

    @paulhenry yes, that's what I was inquiring about - the copyright protection. I believe distrokid sets all that up for me, but I could be mistaken. Thanks for the info.

  • @ustaknow Mar 22

    Hey @paulhenry @splittybooms - paul is correct, - write it, it's yours. CR Reg protects you for a claim against first illegal use and ability to issue stop order more easily.

    A CR notice, (and why we have lawyers for this πŸ˜€ ) is in the strictest sense not necessary if it's true you in fact own it upon creation. But, it sure does provide for a nice warning and a "I didn't know defense" won't work as easily, - exposure to "your" work. You'll see Attorney Musicians 😝 do just that and not CR Reg the "Collection", certainly not each one off - too expensive and why do that?

    The CR Reg process is online and cheaper to submit electronically - the old paper way is there but cost more.

    If you have time, do an initial collection (FAWM quailty fine, QA does not count), lyric, demo, leadsheet (I don't notate) and then "that" demo performance - so hit all three, lyric, music-melody and performance.

    To be clear about my experience, for what it's worth, I've engaged Nash-ville πŸ˜€ Bands, with manager, all indie and don't CR Reg. No one, legit, in the "business" would touch it for so many lawyerly resaons 😝

    Your best source is copyright.gov direct, - any time I phoned, got an immediate assist.

    Your worst source of info is from someone like me, "here" 😝 rather then just going the the CR Reg agency.

    As far as foreign CR, - really? OK.

    I fall back to loving to have a kazillion "chinese" playing my stuff, and performing it in Beijing free πŸ˜€

    As my close friend learned in his business in singapore, indonesia, - a country without contract law can't be navigated by a westerner, - period. And what would you collect if could.

    CR Reg USA, maybe UK. But, for me, every now and then or only when you see someone steeling your stuff for profit, - which happens. Watch indie movie backing tracks and etc., not AM Radio 😝 - not happening there.

  • @ustaknow Mar 22

    @splittybooms @paulhenry -side note; the only "issue" I've observed "here" is in Collaborations. Not to impune them - I'm fine with them.

    However, someone says OK, for here only, or just is a newbee and engages. So, what happened that I saw directly, not hearsay, is a person who did just that, - great lyrics and etc., was clear as for - here only; or clearly ask first. However, I do get many music feeds, and you can't "hide" on the internet, if looking for "Fame!" 😝

    So, I then saw their stuff clearly used in a situation I knew they'd like to know about, not Reflect well on their Name (brand?). Sure enough, "that" was one of the years here -folks came out of the woodwork to debate, argue, spew -well, nothing that had to do with that, but you know how that goes πŸ˜€ - You say one thing and someone chooses to hear 180 degrees, as hard as they can, - so they can spew an opinion, or rage, again, and again.

    Otherwise, in reality, to keep your stuff on a Group site, well known, or a SC, BC - actually *proves time and place and "access" to your stuff if a rip off of nearly the same. - Time, place, access to your workproduct.

    Again, the *angst felt is usually, always just "here", not the real-real world where no one with Backing Money would touch Work-product, not of clear origin, or CR Reg'd first w/o issues (why would they?). That tends (all the angst, warnings), tends to come from *IMO/IME from folks SELLING sudo-knowledge of "they know" from a Nash-ville PO Box πŸ˜€ address. I hate seeing folks ripped off, but it happens.

    Berklee College online (coursera) used to provide a free primer, - kinda 80% OK, not fully at 100% IMO, but free and better than nothing.

  • @timfatchen  Mar 23

    Copyright...occasionally in FAWM I forget but normally, I have a Copyright and All Rights Reserved statement on everything I put up, on every demo CD, on every bit of paper. In Oz, no Copyright registration (unlike the US) but the same "you created it, you own it" statutory protection. Proof of authorship? FAWM and 5090 datestamps are as good as you'll ever get! But also, I register everything that goes public or on the net or even private on teh net with my local PRO. Collabs: I sort out the mix with collaborators and then register (unless they've already registered in their home country PRO). It's all more in hope than anger....

  • @edwardsmusic Mar 23

    I do leave drafts up. Sometimes I might just feel too lazy to update/replace them, or otherwise I just leave them up as a sort of work-in-progress.

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