I recently signed up for Spotify and love it! What is your source of music?

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  • @johnstaples  3 weeks

    TL;DR I discovered Spotify and love it! What is your source of music?
    On a few things I'm fairly cutting edge. I love a brand new movie or a brand new PC game or a brand new book by a favorite author.

    But usually I can wait until the bleeding has stopped (and the price has come way down!) By the time I got a flat screen TV the prices had come down and I got 3-year old technology for cheap (and love it!)

    And then there are some things where I am far, far behind the times! Up until recently I still purchased CDs. And then I ripped them onto my ancient iPod. And then I listened! But that all changed a week or so ago!

    I have avoided streaming services since the days of Napster but Amazon included music streaming with my Prime account. Kinda nice but still kinda random. And I consider myself more of an album kind guy.

    Then, I finally gave serious consideration to Spotify. And after a brief review I signed up. And I am in Hog Heaven! Every single album I have looked for is there (and now in my library!) All the new stuff, modern pop, alt rock, Americana, etc. It is all there with very few exceptions.

    I can listen to songs. To albums. To my own playlists. To playlists others have created. I can even download to my phone for offline listening! And this gold mine of music costs me less than a single CD each month!

    I am way out beyond delighted and cannot imagine myself ever buying another CD! So now, I am part of the problem of artists being underpaid but I am also in Music Nirvana (and yeah Nirvana is in my library now as well!)

    One side effect of my finally joining this party is the full realization that no one will be buying my CDs should I decide to produce them. I already knew this intellectually but now I fully understand and accept it as reality!

    What is your source of music?

  • @quork  3 weeks

    I like Spotify for checking out unfamiliar albums, but if I like an album I’ll buy it (usually on iTunes) so the artist gets paid (less Apple’s 30% cut, but still). I’m also a fan of high res or lossless digital audio, and I notice the poor quality on Spotify.

  • @nadine 3 weeks

    I don't use Spotify and probably never will. They pay too less for the artists (I experienced that on my own) and this algorithm skips small artists.
    Some years ago I used last.fm, now I switched to YouTube and Bandcamp to discover new music. Things I really like are bought as CD. I dont want artworks and booklets to die.

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    I've taken to using the free Spotify (with ads) option at times. Apparently there is/was a limit to the songs you could listen to on the free version but I never hit it. It's easy to find new music on spotify, or music from years ago that I wouldn't be able to hear otherwise.

    I've taken to buying vinyl as well.. Hardly ever listen to it but I have the art and I feel like I'm supporting the artist that way. And I use bandcamp for indie artists and buy downloads and/or cds if they don't have vinyl.

    I don't like the pay structure of spotify. But if an artist puts their music on spotify then who am I to say I won't listen to it there? I see absolutely no problem in listening to defunct bands there and if I discover new music then at least there's a chance I buy their merch or see a show (if/when that's a thing again.)

    That being said, I don't think anyone should use spotify if they don't want to.

  • @andygetch  3 weeks

    Call me old school (or just old), but I still buy albums in the physical form, then record/convert to the listening device format. That used to be recording from vinyl to cassettes, now it is recording/ripping to mp3. I make my own playlists using the music version of itunes. For listening in the car (only one of three of our cars has a CD player) I put a playlist on a thumb drive since Apple in their wisdom keeps the playlist in the cloud so internet access is needed to even listen to what I own. I have thousands of hours of music on my computer. As a result of the volume of music I already have, I am buying maybe a few dozen a year instead of a few hundred in my younger days. When I do buy, the majority is from indie artists, mostly people I already know. For music I like enough to listen to multiple times, I want to own it.

    If I want to explore a new-to-me artist I go to their website, Bandcamp, or Youtube. I tried Spotify for a couple of months and it was not for me.

  • @chipwithrow  3 weeks

    I just downloaded Spotify onto my phone so I could listen to the Barack Obama/Bruce Springsteen podcast, and so far that's all I've used it for. Years ago, I had Spotify on my computer. Then when I went iPhone I started using Apple Music. Very happy with it.
    I do have a CD player in my car, and a stack of maybe 100 CDs in a cupboard in the house that I rotate in and out of the car. (Right now John Lennon's greatest hits is in the car player.)
    The only home CD player I have is an old boombox, which I bought in the mid 2000s for the specific reason that it has cassette-dubbing capabilities - at the time I had a collection of over 1,000 hours of live Grateful Dead on tape.
    Now my main home/work listening source is phone connected to a small Bluetooth speaker. No more big stereo system.
    Interesting thread you started, @johnstaples.

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    I do have well over 1600 CDs, too. That might be why I haven't gone totally to streaming. And my radio broke in my truck. I'm looking at a new one with bluetooth and usb port so I can listen via phone etc.,

  • @andygetch  3 weeks

    I still have maybe 1000 CD's and several hundred albums. Plus thousands that I had recorded/ripped to mp3 and have since thrifted or given away. Have to admit that I'm not crazy about the current streaming royalties, but most of the CD's and albums I have/had were bought used, and we do watch a few hours a week of live performance videos on Youtube so there is that.

  • @johnstaples  3 weeks

    Interesting to hear others' opinions on this! I expected the anti-Spotify sentiment; I feel a bit of that as well.

    I have several hundred pounds of vinyl complete with original sleeves and all the goodies (Thick as a Brick newspaper, Big Bambu ginormous rolling paper, School's out paper panties, etc.) I have lugged these around for most of my life but haven't listened to them since CDs came out. And I have hundreds of CDs I don't listen to either! But I treasure this collection and always will.

    Sidenote: I remain pissed I had to buy the White album and so many others so many times! 😁 LP, 8-track, cassette, CD...I reckon I've paid Sir Paul enough over the years that I don't care if he gets nothing when I listen to Back in the USSR on Spotify!

    I hated it when bookstores and record stores closed down. But honestly, I, like the vast majority, had already abandoned them for Amazon for most purchases. And I recall my grandfather saying how upset he was when cars replaced horses since some of his livelihood was blacksmithing.

    I've pretty much admitted to myself that the music biz as we once knew it is never coming back. Soon there won't be any CDs to buy (and those 2nd-hand CD purchases pay the artists even less than Spotify!)

    I'll continue to buy from small artists, especially those in my FAWMily. But I doubt I'll ever buy anything from a big artist again.

    So yeah, just like the music biz itself, I have moved on! The music biz is dead. Long live the music biz!

  • @kissinginpublic  3 weeks

    I had Spotify since it was new. I use it quite a lot, especially since we got a couple of Sonos speakers. I still have several hundred CDs in drawers, which I use in the car.

    I think the rawest end of things these days must be for new, signed artists. I don't see how they make much of anything, if they ever did. For unsigned artists, I think there's less risk and potentially a small income that wasn't available before from putting music out now, so some might do better... Finding your audience is tough though. Social media takes a LOT more investment than forums used to.

  • @nadine 3 weeks

    The thing that really gets me screwed these days is the increasing pace of music. I feel like the whole cycle from songwriting to release promotion shortened from months to a couple of days. If you want to be recognised by algorithms you'll have to release regularly. I don't think that happened due to Spotify - it's the whole social media and streaming thing. Quantity over quality. Its not my deal that's why I'm out.

    Interesting thoughts on collectibles and treasures. Maybe you're right with that image of horses and cars. Your last words make me cry and laugh the same time 😆 thank you for this!

    I have the same thoughts. Half of my CD collection are some Myspace contacts. Even if I not buy every song I may support indie artists by a like or comment. The gratefulness is priceless!

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks

    I wrote a script that saves me playlists. J¬ heard 600 releases from 1983 and 1973 and now going through 2003.
    Also got a list of 15000 power metal artists. Gonna search and save their popular tracks on a playlist.

    The script itself isn't very easy to use, so I can't really share it, but you can check out my public playlists and discover some amazing songs.

    By the way, people still seem to think that I mostly like metal music even though that has probably never been true. There are very few metal bands I enjoy. So, don't think my playlists are mostly metal. Rock music, on the other hand... there's a lot of rock!

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks

    By the way @johnstaples roadrunner records asked me this same question....... ten years ago 😁

    I've been using since 2011.

  • @timfatchen  3 weeks

    I use spotify but I tend to use youtube more, because I'm not usually running music "in the background". I still put music out on CDs but the numbers of CDs sold are minimal now--and most went in live shows which are no longer happening-- and CDmain use is as permanent record (mine, and also including library deposit required here in Oz). Also, my distro is through CDBaby (permanent on-price) so that automatically puts me into Spotify, as well as youtube but distinct from my own personal vids. But I make lots more pennies and I use that word advisedly out of apple than I do out of the rapacious Spotify. I'm with @nadine on that. Yes the music biz is broken but the amounts of money being made are huger. In fewer pockets. Something will give someday but...

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks

    It's interesting that people think that things will crash at some point or something. I can only see a bright future for corporations. Masses want easy music to consume, which is a product, not art. You can probably make a living if you start producing product for consumption. Like McDonalds.

    If all the "real artists" pick up their toys and leave Spotify, the big S daddy won't probably even bother to say "goodbye".

    Spotify pays the largest amount of money to the products that make them the most money... or at least allow them to acquire the largest amount of users. Welcome to late stage capitalism.

    So, now we're asking the right questions. Is capitalism ever going to go away? Well, the billionaires make the laws, so for the system to change would require for them to hand out their power. Sure, maybe one or two might be willing to do that. But all of them? Hell no. Capitalism is here to stay, unless lazy consumers start getting off their asses and picking up pitchforks or something.

    And we've already seen time and time again that people would rather sit around and keep angrily typing "this should happen and this should happen!" while unwilling to take literally any action themselves.

    Protests won't change anything, either. You know why? Of course you do. Everybody knows it. Nobody talks about it. If you just wait for a while, the protest goes away. And that's all that happened. Most people will never change their way of life because some greedy bastard wants to get richer.

    So... @timfatchen, you say music biz is broken. Capitalism is broken. But unfortunatelly, we're at a point where it cannot be fixed. Laws would have to change and the ultra rich make the laws, so... the game is rigged. And people fighting amongst themselves keeps the attention away from the real issue.

    That being said, I'm one of the people who just want a comfy life. And since things won't change anyway, why should I make my life hell for absolutely no chance of any progress?

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    @ianuarius But that's not capitalism. It's corporatism. When artists develop a relationship with their fans and skip the corporate model (as much as possible) THAT'S the free market, that's capitalism. So go buy the merch and music directly from the artist. Skip the corporation whenever possible. And continue to protest this asinine (and immoral) pay structure that corporations and government have instituted to benefit the corporations and their lackeys. You're right, most protests fizzle out, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try.

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks

    @tcelliott Yea, capitalism, corporatism, seems very inconsequential differentiation to me. I don't want to develop relationships with any artists. J¬ gimme the thing on Spotify. It's better for me. Sucks that not everyone is making money off of that, but that's j¬ how things go. There are patreons and kickstarters and bandcamps and whatever and if you use them and feel like you're getting your money's worth, then kudos. I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of them. Feels like charity, where some people benefit and others don't. And it's not like I'm rich anyway. Should I give away the pennies I've made with my music to other artists, who then presumably give that away again? It j¬ doesn't work. Nobody gets anything. I'm already listening to new music 15 hours every day.

    Most protests fizzle out? All protests fizzle out.

    And to me that does mean that I shouldn't try that. Why would I try something that I know is not going to work? That is insane. Once somebody comes up with a plan that has a chance of working, let me know.

    EDIT: Oh, and I don't mean that protests don't serve a purpose in other endeavors. When people are willing to change the laws, then protests are a great way to raise awareness on the issue.

    But when the issue is that billionaires shouldn't decide the fate of everybody on the planet and they're the ones who can choose to either benefit themselves or not benefit themselves, then yea... I'm not holding my breath.

  • @candle  3 weeks

    Can I say FAWM? Oh & Bandcamp. That's the extent of my music consumption online. The odd time I'll check things out on YouTube. But FAWM (& 50/90) & Bandcamp are my major music gotos.

    And yeah, I love CDs, Cassettes & especially Records - any speed or size (the smell of new Vinyl freshly released from celophane is probably the only "drug" I'll ever willingly addict myself to 😉 ). Physical media will never get old. And +1 on the comment re: artwork & booklets.

    Oh, and I still use WinAmp. There ain't nothing like it, and the WACUP version developed by the community has assured its continued development. It's streaming capabilities are awesome. Take that Spotify 😉

    See You In The Shadows…

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    @ianuarius Yeah, point taken.

  • @ustaknow 3 weeks

    Interesting conversation.

    I was wondering if someone "else" would say FAWM 😀 BandCamp, hahhh (candle) - my answer too.

    I've never liked spotify:

    But, I don't like Brocolli either 😀 - so what?

    And I don't wear Boxers, don't even wear underwear, - no thongs for me either. - Preferences, gotta luv'em.

    I have to, generally speak, and in broad terms, agree with tcelliott; - and if one wants emperical data, - it's why anything else exists. The coffee houses of the 1960's was "it", the garage bands of era [zyx] were it and "Bandcamps" et alia, "it" for the 21st Century.
    - https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2020-01-26/grammys...

    - Your bedroom too? And, all for $400 - $1000 +-

    Hyperboilic conflation makes for great protest songs and all the cool kids may admire one for it in that moment, yet, needs to have a basis. Real basis. Vetted basis. Not real feelings basis.

    Someone in their basement starts something and it catches on. Then has an IPO, then gets purchased. Hahhh, well, God Bless! (I'll take a bag of that please 😀 )

    SPOT has ~ 191M shares outstanding and trades ~1.5M/day; current price $261/shr up more than $6 recently

    So, which greedy bastard up in Sweden (for a change) do we burn at the stake today? (Lord Bless the NASDAQ, - 1863 Nordic securities exchange.) How many "Old White Men" vs all others benefiting from that great Nordic, NASDAQ way of making money?

    - Lord bless all the old white Viking men and greedy bastard of the 19th Century. I've paid a few bills thanks to them 😀

    - Back to my AM Radio in my '65 Ford Pick up truck. 😉 (Plays music, too!)

  • @sunnymae  3 weeks

    Over 210,000 streams on one of my songs paid out $54. Roughly 2/100 of a cent per song.
    Besides media placement, where the payoff is quite lucrative, I've decided to sell my next collection of work directly off of my website as it is the only way I can generate any income and maintain my self-esteem. I'm thrilled that over 210,000 people have enjoyed my music and I am an artist who will always write regardless of pay, because it is simply who I am. The rest is pathetic. I wait and see what the next paradigm shift will bring.
    I agreed to digital distribution through CD baby to Spotify and all the other streaming platforms having no idea the extent to which the trickle down would devalue my work. Honest work.
    Still.. I have used Spotify for various projects in working with others. It is a tidal wave that cannot be fought as far as I can see at this time.
    Thanks for starting this conversation John. I totally get where you're at in signing up. Everyone has their own purpose and if it's not financial it is an endless source of listening material and offers literally hundreds of thousands of ways to be heard.

  • @yam655  3 weeks

    Most common sources of music:
    - My own song archive (forgotten music == new music)
    - https://fawm.org/ (here)
    - https://fiftyninety.fawmers.org/ (50/90)
    - https://songfight.org/ (SongFight!)
    - http://spintunescontest.blogspot.com/ (SpinTunes)
    - https://netlabelday.tumblr.com/ (Netlabel Day)
    - Video Game music bundled with random Humble Bundles

    Less frequently these days:
    - https://freemusicarchive.org/ (The FMA)
    - http://dig.ccmixter.org/ (CC Mixter)
    - https://www.dogmazic.net/ (Dogmazic)

    Using those points as starting locations, it's possible to find other sources for music, too. (This gets me to various artist Bandcamp pages, Archive.org collections, etc.)

    I do not and will not use Spotify until the artists I want to listen to can actually make money using that service. (Those artists include all of you.) That goes for other similar streaming services.

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    How much money do artists make for streaming on bandcamp?

  • @yam655  3 weeks

    @ianuarius "Feels like charity, where some people benefit and others don't." -- That's how I feel about Spotify, actually. Some people benefit. Others don't. The people that benefit aren't the ones that actually need it. It's a charity for the rich.

  • @yam655  3 weeks

    @tcelliott Bandcamp limits the number of times a person can stream until the album is purchased. Listeners get to sample the whole song, but they need to purchase it if they want to keep streaming it.

  • @tuneslayer  3 weeks

    I've always been partial to radio. A lot of the music i hear still comes from radio or its streaming equivalent. I particularly like a two-hour blues program that the CBC's Vancouver affiliate plays every Saturday night. The BBC World Service has music as part of some of its arts programming; I discover a lot of Afro-pop that way.

    Occasionally I'll stumble into something unexpected. Last night, just to see what would happen, I told my Echo Dot, "Alexa, play the blues." It came back with a Spotify stream that led off with Parker Millsap's "Heaven Sent" and Charlie Parr's "1922 Blues", both of which are really good and neither of which I would have known about otherwise. (Are they blues? You decide.)


    Other things I listen to:

    Friends in the filk community
    My 125 GB and growing collection of MP3s (pulled from my CD collection)
    Recommendations from friends
    Serendipitous discoveries based on just grabbing a radio station or stream and letting it play (with occasional help from Spotify)

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks

    @yam655 To me Spotify feels like a service that I like using.

  • @yam655  3 weeks

    @ianuarius Then you're comfortable with some people benefiting while others don't, as long as it is a service you like using.

    ... kind of like the folks who are totally comfortable with sweatshop and child labor for the production of their clothing, as long as the clothing is in styles that they like ...

  • @tcelliott  3 weeks

    @yam655 - I get that there are real reasons not to use Spotify but... if an artist puts their music on it then isn’t that permission to listen to it?

    As far as I’m concerned if I don’t want people to listen to my music on Spotify then I’ll stop putting in the service. Otherwise I can complain about the payouts etc but I can blame anyone for using the service.

  • @johnstaples  3 weeks

    @yam655 ya pick your battles. I recycle and try to reduce waste. I've done a little protesting. If my community bans water in voting lines I'll maybe show up to pass out some. I contribute some to selected charities.

    But, as @tcelliott put it, artists that put their music on Spotify have already made the decision to participate. So I have absolutely no regrets about paying my $10/month to stream, and yes, even download, as much music as I want!

    Comparing it to sweatshops is kinda lame, don't you think? No one is working in a sweatshop to produce their music and get it on Spotify! We artists have options to get "real" jobs (and the vast majority of us do just that!)

  • @candle  3 weeks

    Not to stir the pot (seriuously, I'm trying not to, 'cos I can see how this whole Spotify! vs. Hate Spotify! thing might degenerate…) but at the end of the day if it works for you (for whatever reason you use it: i.e. promotion, profit or just simple listening pleasure), then have at it. If you have a problem with it's ethics, pay structure, artist support (i.e. it's business model), then don't use it. Simple as that, right?

    Or am I just being too rational about all this? Sorry if I am. No offence meant to anyone on either side of the argument.

    See You In The Shadows…

    p.s. for the record, I don't use & have never used Spotify. My son loves it tho…

  • @ianuarius  3 weeks


  • @nerdjealous  3 weeks


  • @djohnson  3 weeks

    @quork for higher quality streaming, you might like Tidal!

    As for the ethics point of view, here's a hypocrites take (as someone who uses Spotify)

    @tcelliott Its true that artists have put stuff up on Spotify and you could indeed take that as permission to consume it on there but, well, you couldn't really *not* put it on Spotify. You need it on the streaming services because that's how music is consumed and discovered. If it was only in stores, no-one would ever know it. So Spotify does serve a purpose in discovery, but unfortunately artists just don't get enough. Songwriters get an even more unfair slice of the pie. Really, the system needs to change somehow because user behaviour is set. Its the same thing with what @yam655 talks about with sweatshop and slave labour - people will put aside their personal ethics for the right price.

    So, you may not be alone in using Spotify even though its crappy for artists, but please don't take the presence of an artist on a platform as an argument to overlook the exploitation!

  • @vomvorton  3 weeks

    @djohnson well said.

    I use Tidal for streaming currently, as they pay artists significantly more than Spotify (almost three times as much per stream) and don't seem to have the same baggage as Spotify otherwise - yet. I have concerns about the way that it's heading now that Square Inc. have taken over but we'll see. I do think streaming services provide a useful service in terms of music discovery, but any time I find an album that I want to listen to more than once or twice it goes onto my Bandcamp wishlist for the next Bandcamp Friday.

    I found this Bandcamp vs Spotify article interesting, and it has so many stats! Everyone loves stats: https://components.one/posts/bandcamp-the-chaos-bazaar#1

    Streaming aside I get most of my music recommendations from friends and from following artists that I love on social media and seeing what other stuff they promote.

  • @shelleroo1  2 weeks

    I listen a lot to Spotify, but when I find I'm listening to an artist a fair bit, I buy their album off Apple iTunes or Bandcamp. But then I keep listening on Spotify so they continue to get that tiny bit of revenue as well. I was wondering if I shouldn't just keep my Spotify playlists playing 24/7 with the volume off...

  • @coolparadiso  2 weeks

    I am not a great spotify fan due to the small amount artists receive but i cant deny its a real handy service and it aint going nowhere. I know there are strong feeling but part of the debate missing is that Spotify came to life partially because of the huge downturn in music purchases as illegal downloading was huge! Unfortunately though spotify has helped the bigger artists as although they get little per stream its better than zero from an illegal download, it has done nothing for the rest. I use it more if im hunting for something and for podcasts. I have plenty of original music from other sources, including listening to and buying bandcamp music.

  • @yam655  2 weeks

    @coolparadiso It's illegal to put most Spotify music on a podcast, at least in the US. (This would be why Spotify now has a podcast service that allows you to legally use Spotify music.)

    In the US, music copyright is particularly weird, though, so perhaps it isn't illegal in your country.

    My desire to avoid unintentional illegal music copying is one of the things that keeps me focused on Creative Commons music.

    Since I have kids and an ex-wife, if I shared music with my kids that they took to their mother's house, I'd be engaging in illegal music copying. (This isn't "piracy" as historically pirates were the good guys, going around freeing slaves -- or, you know, "liberating property" because people were property.)

    The industry periodically tries to make it illegal to have commercial music playing in another room but audible in a YouTube video, so to prevent future law infractions, I do what I can to avoid all music protected by traditional copyright.

    It also means I have never shared with them any of the music I listened to when I was a kid, but that is what is needed to prevent them from getting arrested.

  • @coolparadiso  2 weeks

    I meant listening to podcasts @yam655 . I use Spotify mainly listening to all the various songwriting podcasts around the world. My podcast (which is on spotify) only has original songs given to me by the artist!

  • @oldlostjohn  2 weeks

    Still buy CDs if well packaged with booklets of liner notes and lyrics. I do listen to Spotify from time to time, but only have a free account with commercials interrupting about every third song, so more like checking out something I'm interested in that I may buy on CD.
    If only there was something as user-friendly as Spotify somehow co-owned by the artists so revenues were fairly and equally shared. It should have been set up a long time ago though, as challenging Spotify now would likely take huge marketing. Bandcamp is fine but the lack of possibilities creating playlists etc renders it less attractive to the current generation of music consumers. Personally, I often listen to albums start to finish, and I like that you can put your lyrics on Bandcamp along with all relevant credits.
    Admittedly, I've put my own music on Spotify though I try to direct my fans to Bandcamp. Part of me wants to quit Spotify, but I fear that it will only make listeners forget that I even exist.
    I haven't released a CD for a few years. Never sold the 500 copies you need to order of a manufactured replicated CD, as opposed to a duplicated/CD-R, and even if I sell enough to break even or even make some profit, it hurts to produce a lot of unnecessary plastic in these times.
    But all this about streaming and revenues and royalties are complex issues. If I play the devil's advocate I'd say recording and releasing music today is much less expensive than ever before that it's not such a big deal that it's hard making money. If you pay nothing to listen you may as well offer your music for free. And there is a huge amount of music released these days so it's hard to imagine anyone making good money as compared to the days when a limited number of artists got through the needle's eye to land a record deal. Big supply and limited demand has never been good for business. So what is going to make a difference is of course promotion and marketing, rather than artistic quality. Isn't it lovely?

  • @tcelliott  2 weeks

    @oldlostjohn said, "Part of me wants to quit Spotify, but I fear that it will only make listeners forget that I even exist." Which exactly what @djohnson and @yam655 are referring to, imo. It feels like artists are being "forced" to use the platform which makes the lack of a fair pay structure all the more frustrating.

    Regardless, we have theses tools available and how you use them is up to you as an artist or you as a listener. I'm not gonna hold my breath or pray that the government stops catering to corporations (corporatism) in the near future. I know for myself, there are artists that I've supported by buying their music that I wouldn't have discovered without spotify. And I don't use it much, either. Well less than ten hours a month and some months not at all. (Although I have been listening to G Slade's indie music podcast on spotify the past couple of months.)

  • @johnstaples  2 weeks

    @oldlostjohn you make excellent points. I wanted to comment on this, "there is a huge amount of music released these days so it's hard to imagine anyone making good money as compared to the days when a limited number of artists got through the needle's eye to land a record deal"

    Two points...First there is a HUGE supply of music available for free plus hundreds of other "channels" of entertainment that we never had 50 years ago. Second, even in the "good old days" the vast majority of talented artists never got a record deal at all and most of those few who did that did never got to make a second record!

  • @oldlostjohn  2 weeks

    @johnstaples True. And I have a feeling - though I have no statistics to back it up - that the ones who are moaning the most are: a) Long since established artists that used to make good money from record sales, and b) Aspiring indie artists too young to remember what you refer to in your second point. We must be grateful for the possibilities of making and sharing music today - things like FAWM amongst others - but for most of us it has to remain a hobby. (Though still thinking Spotify could be more generous with their royalties.)

  • @ianuarius  2 weeks

    It's probably not even up to Spotify. They negotiate deals with the big companies who allow the music on the service, which keeps it going in the first place. Are they even profitable yet? I'm sure they'd love to pay more, but out of what money?

  • @johnstaples  2 weeks

    @ianuarius that is a great point! I think sometimes we assume, perhaps mistakenly, that that big pile of gold that used to flow to record companies and artists in the good old days still exists and Spotify is simply keeping the lion's share. In fact, it may be that the pile of gold is gone or at least severely reduced and companies like Spotify are simply sharing a reasonable amount based on what its customers are paying. I don't know this nor am I claiming it...just speculating (so please don't nail me to the cross for "supporting" Spotify!)

  • @ianuarius  2 weeks

    "Since it launched 12 years ago, Spotify has never posted an annual net profit.

    In fact, the company’s cumulative annual net losses in the past decade add up to €2.62 billion – or around $2.8bn at today’s exchange rate."


    Customer acquisition is the game these days.

    And yea, I think big record companies "allow" their music on the service so that they'll get the money that the subs make. Business as usual. Spotify could contest them, but then it would just be a service without Bieber, Sheeran, Drake and all the other crap the majority of people listen to. If that sounded ambiguous, I meant to say that no one would use the service. Which I guess would be better for music somehow???

  • @panch  2 weeks

    An "unsigned" filter on the streaming platforms could help.

  • @gubna 1 week

    Bandcamp. and a couple shops I get emails from, like Burning Shed.

    I just downloaded some Amulets, and Hainbach off bandcamp.

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