Reasonable Person Principles

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  • @burrsettles  Feb 10

    @nancyrost posted these in a different thread but it's worth shining a floodlight on them. πŸ˜€ These guidelines go beyond the Terms of Service. Please read and abide by them for a better FAWM experience for everyone!

    - Everyone will be reasonable.
    - Everyone expects everyone else to be reasonable.
    - Do not be offended if someone suggests you are not being reasonable.
    - Keep the focus on creativity and productivity.

    Reasonable people think about their use of this site, and the needs of others, and adjust their behavior to meet the goals of a common good for the community, i.e., expressing what you want to say, but accepting and accommodating the needs of others. Volunteer moderators will work to make sure this principle stays on track. Mods reserve the right to remove posts from the forum which they feel may disrupt the discussion within a thread or may mislead other members.

    In general practical terms, this means:
    - Keep comments constructive.
    - No attacks, insults, or flamewars (even if you feel attacked, insulted, or flamed).

  • @barbara  Feb 10

    *bump*

  • @spinhead  Feb 10

    Ah, this post always makes me heart go pittypat.

  • @kahlo2013  Feb 10

    Thank you

  • @erikdidriksen  Feb 11

    This is a nice reminder that our incredibly creative, collaborative, and supportive FAWM community exists in large part because it is shepherded by spectacular people like Burr, Nancy, Jen, Eric, and Helen.

    <3

  • @burrsettles  Feb 11

    and helen.

    and all y'all, tbh.

  • @kathym  Feb 11

    Amen.

  • @fearlessflight2014  Feb 11

    I have been thinking about such things as I cruise around the forums and take in the community vibe. I remember in my first couple of years I over reacted to some collab disagreements, took strong opinions and personalities the wrong way and did a bit of my own forum drama stuff but I realise now that my expectations were at fault. The only thing we all share is the desire to FAWM, to create. In every other way we may as well be strangers in a public place...

  • @fearlessflight2014  Feb 11

    ...the only things left that sometimes trigger me are: 1. Using someone’s work without asking first. 2. People questioning the validity of what is posted( is this really a song?? Gah!!) 3. People obviously focus on getting value out of the community without wanting to give. But even these things are the risks we all take in doing something so sacred (making art) with strangers. So be kind and don’t expect miracles.

  • @fearlessflight2014  Feb 11

    And of course THANK YOU to @burrsettles @nancyrost and all the moderators and long time FAWMers whose time and kindness make this place one of the safest places I’ve found to be creative online.

  • @tallmarkmusic  Feb 11

    This seems reasonable.

  • @nancyrost  7 weeks

    Bump.

  • @stevenwesleyguiles  7 weeks

    nancyrost - Message burrsettles if there are issues...

  • @zecoop  7 weeks

    (messaging Burr right now about my issues with @stevenwesleyguiles) πŸ˜‰

  • @stevenwesleyguiles  7 weeks

    @zecoop CRAP! πŸ˜€
    I should never have told you your music sounded like ABBA if ABBA couldn't harmonize and played their instruments like the Backstreet Boys.

  • @zecoop  7 weeks

    @stevenwesleyguiles - I really didn't think reasonable was so hard... but once again - you just never can tell about some people!

    OBVIOUSLY, I was going for sounding like the BACKSTREET BOYS, if they couldn't harmonize and played their instruments like ABBA. Some people will just NEVER understand what I'm going for.

    πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜‰

  • @brrrse  7 weeks

    I'm sure mocking people and making fun of people is a good example of the Reasonable Person Principal.

    Your personal relationship with someone on FAWM isn't always apparant to others via text - so inside jokes and personal jokes aren't understood. I feel the above posts are mocking and insulting - but I"ll be told that's my problem.

    I do not understand how making fun of people is reasonable.

    Please explain.

  • @zecoop  7 weeks

    @brrrse - we are just joking around with each other. Nothing more than that.

  • @petemurphy 7 weeks

    I was glad to see this thread.

    Unreasonable, aggressive, rude, offensive behaviour is the exact reason that I stayed away from FAWM this year.

  • @tcelliott  7 weeks

    @petemurphy - And from some outside of fawm discussion, and correct me if I'm wrong, that would include passive-aggressive responses that imply poor conduct when none was intended.

    I was very sorry that you weren't active this year, but completely understand your position. Be well.

  • @kevinemmrich  7 weeks

    @petemurphy : Your wonderful and positive presence was missed by me!

  • @spinhead  7 weeks

    @petemurphy That's what the "report abuse" link on every single comment is for. The Guardians of the FAWM would like to know about those things and address them, but they depend on us to report unreasonable, aggressive, rude, or offensive behavior because they can't be everywhere.

  • @lowhum  7 weeks

    It's my third year here and I've experienced nothing but good will and positiveness which I try to spread as well and as far as I can. Thank you all!

  • @siebass  7 weeks

    I feel like I missed something, but sorry that you didn't participate this year. I'm down with RPP (yeah you know me).

  • @petemurphy 7 weeks

    @tcelliott - yep.

    @kevinemmrich - Thank you, Kevin. I hope you're doing well.

    @spinhead - I believe that a number of people did contact the moderators, but I'm not sure what was done about it. I've checked in from time to time and the behaviour seems to have continued. It's something that goes a bit deeper than one our two questionable forum posts, but not something I wish to get into any further.

  • @stevenwesleyguiles  6 weeks

    @brrrse You're right. I probably shouldn't joke around when someone doesn't know my relationship with another person. Inside jokes CAN come across in the wrong way.

    I like @zecoop. πŸ˜€

  • @helenseviltwin  6 weeks

    [mod hat on]
    @petemurphy - we do try to keep a fairly light hand in moderating. Often, by the time we come to a thread, it seems like the issue has resolved itself, in which case, we often don't weigh in. Sometimes we email the people involved to discuss their postings, and it will look in the face of it like nothing is happening.

    We do look at every post which is flagged, but a significant proportion of them look like they were flagged in error. Sometimes, this may not be the case.

    If you think that an issue is not being addressed, feel free to email any of us, or info@fawm.org to bring it up. It may be on our radar, but it's possible that we haven't realised the extent of impact it's having.
    [returns mod hat to the hat stand]

  • @brrrse  6 weeks

    I'm not one to leave and come back, but I don't like being accused of passive agressive postings - I do feel there are one or two following me around the forums just trying to argue with me - so I'll clarify here that my post in this thread was neither passive agressive or accusatory. I was offended by the posts of two people joking around about reasonable behavior. In a public forum of 2500+ people, it's easy to forget that not everyone is in on all the "inside jokes". Some of those "inside jokes" are meant to be "inside jokes". People get a "comfort level" in online forums where they forget they're not sitting in a coffee bar, but standing in the middle of a very crowded BUS. Also, some people save their respect and good manners for real life friends. That behavior above looks like bullying to me - In my personal environment, bullying is a serious issue - and even jokes have to be taken seriously - so what might be friendly "boys will be boys" horseplay in your common familiar group of friends in your hang out may not go over so well in public, when you're dealing with people of completely different lifestyles and backgrounds.

    Certianly, it's all about intent of actions and not the consequenses, right?

  • @johnstaples  6 weeks

  • @sapient  6 weeks

    I like watching people have fun and smilies seem like a pretty clear indication of intent. What I don't like is people being directly rude to each other. We seem to be pretty lucky that there's very little of that and also pretty good at calling out the very occasionally examples of it round here and then making fun of it... For those that remember, the whole "shit's weak, dawg" thing was a great example!
    @helenseviltwin, thanks for the reminder of how you and the other mods work. Seems like the very model of reasonableness to me. When I studied contract law I always liked the idea of the reasonable person πŸ˜ƒ
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaso...

  • @petemurphy 6 weeks

    @helenseviltwin - apologies if my post came across like I was having a dig at the moderators. That was not my intention. I have nothing but respect for you guys, and the job that you do.

    Maybe I made the wrong decision in staying away from this year's challenge, but there was a level of unreasonable behaviour that I hadn't seen on the site before, and there were people who appeared to be enabling and supporting said behaviour. It went beyond forum posts, and extended to people's biographies attacking the whole community, abusive songs, people being bullied off the site, and various other things that shouldn't belong here.

    It left me feeling that FAWM was no longer the safe place that I had come to love.

    But the challenge is over now. Hopefully next year will be different...

  • @iveg 6 weeks

    @petemurphy Sorry you got bummed out. I hope 5090's better for you.

    @brrrse Yeah. If people look like they're being super aggressive it wrecks the mood, if we don't know they're joking. On the other hand, if the fun and joking is regulated out, FAWM will be like "My Little Pony." There's a balance...

    @zecoop and @stevenwesleyguiles . From the context, I assumed it was a joke. If it had been directed at me from someone I didn't know, at FAWM I would probably start from "They're trying to be funny" until I had proof otherwise. I think ABBA crossed with Zappa could be an interesting combination. Melodic, dancable, strange, with virtuouso musicians.

  • @tsunamidaily 6 weeks

    Well I don't want no ABBA Zappa
    Don't want no Almond Joy
    There ain't nothing better
    suitable for this boy
    Well it's the only thing
    that can pick me up
    Better than a cup of gold
    See only a chocolate Jesus
    can satisfy my soul

  • @helenseviltwin  6 weeks

    @petemurphy - it didn't come across that way at all. No apology necessary. I just think sometimes people don't see things happen and perhaps think nothing is happening. I know we are not as visible as on many other forums I've been part of, but I think that is largely appropriate for this community.

  • @zecoop  6 weeks

    @sapient - ahhhhhhhhhhhh the good old days of "shit's weak dawg"... When something that was ACTUALLY offensive was taken in stride and people had fun with it, making the whole FAWMily come together. Good times.

  • @sapient  6 weeks

    @zecoop Indeed. That's how I like to think we roll round here! πŸ˜ƒ

  • @stephenwordsmith  6 weeks

    The thing that made that post look the most genuinely threatening to me was certainly the row of six winking faces.

  • @zecoop  6 weeks

    That's right @stephenwordsmith - I'm going for the always intimidating "Wink Line" It works every time. LOL πŸ˜€

  • @petemurphy 6 weeks

    @zecoop -
    Wink's weak, dawg.
    You shoulda used 7 (or more) winks instead.

  • @zecoop  6 weeks

    @petemurphy - I am officially dying here...

    :Bwaahhhhhhhh hahahahaha
    <insert currently accepted number of appropriately intimidating winks here>

  • @stephenwordsmith  6 weeks

    @iveg: I wonder if becoming like 'My Little Pony' would be worth it for the large unexpected cult following.

    We'd have Febroaries. The endless apologetics would boost our profile.

  • @iveg 6 weeks

    @stevenwesleyguiles It would be scary to have large unexpected cultists following us around. I'm going to spend a little time working on ZAbbA songs. Anyone else interested? We could open a seperate thread...

  • @johnstaples  6 weeks

    Dancing weasels
    Ripped my cheek
    Tried to laugh
    But that wink's weak,
    Daaaaaawg!

  • @iveg 6 weeks

    I need to focus on some other things.

  • @chandra83  4 weeks

    *bump*

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