FAWM in Schools?

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  • @metalfootlings Mar 17

    So our dad played some of our songs for our school music teacher at parent-teacher interviews today. And she's interested in possibly hooking FAWM into the class program at our school next February now.

    Are there any schoolteachers here who have tried something like this?

  • @metalfoot  Mar 17

    (Yeah, I posted that in the third person after realizing I posted from the wrong account...)

  • @michaelepic Mar 17

    This would be an amazing tool for students. I feel like there should be a youth writing month. Maybe not February, but perhaps January or March, so they aren't overshadowed by what we're doing in February.

    Yeah yeah, I know I'm supposed to be gone but I happened to log on today by clicking a wrong bookmark and I saw this thread lol so I decided to sneak off to the bathroom on my cell phone to type this reply!

    If the owners of FAWM would be willing, I'd put the word out to as many schools as possible. My fiance is a substitute teacher and might soon be a full-fledged teacher so you never know.

    We could bring the freaking nations youth together for album writing!

  • @dasbinky  Mar 17

    Quick note re: the terms of the site -
    You represent to us that you are at least 18 years of age, or an emancipated minor, or have consent of a legal parent or guardian, and are fully able and competent to enter into the terms set forth in these Terms of Use, and to abide by and comply with these terms. In any case, you affirm that you are over the age of 15, as FAWM.ORG is not intended for children under 15. If you are under 15 years of age, DO NOT USE THIS SITE. Talk to your parents about writing songs or taking on our challenge unofficially until you are older.
    Obviously, we've got people under 15 using the site, but there's a difference between signing up your kids on the sly (which I did) and a school-sponsored effort.

    I'm a huge advocate for getting students into the arts early, but I'd recommend contacting Burr before trying to coordinate anything official that could potentially violate the terms of the site.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 17

    A very good point. Maybe there would be call for a "FAWM Jr" or some such instead.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 17

    Mods, feel free to delete this thread if you'd like.

  • @tcelliott  Mar 17

    No reason to. Kids can do this challenge. Have a teacher sign up as Something Intermediate School Music Club and run the account. Then post all the songs with title (by kid's first name)j

    Problem solved.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 17

    Yeah, as fun as FAWM is, it is primarily an adult activity without the necessary restrictions that a children's website would require.

    Please...let's not change FAWM into FAWM Lite!

  • @tcelliott  Mar 17

    Of course, @burrsettles would be the ultimate decision maker. If it were me, I'd have a teacher get in contact with him.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 17

    @tcelliott, isn't this pretty clear?

    "If you are under 15 years of age, DO NOT USE THIS SITE."

    So, even if a guardian supervises, it is a violation of the rules for children to be posting songs, listening to/reading songs, reading/posting in forums, etc. There are plenty of songs marked NSFW but no restrictions on accessing them (nor should there be). And AFAIK the forums don't even have a NSFW warning. Plus, in some countries there are serious restrictions on how you deal with children on a website.

    Of course, every parent/teacher can choose to ignore the rule and enjoy FAWM to their heart's content! Just don't complain or ask for redress when I use "F%&kity F%&k F%&k" as the hook in my song! 😁

    The best approach would probably be for someone who is interested to start a FAWM-for-kids site and manage that separately.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 17

    Agreed, @johnstaples. Sorry to muddy the waters here.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 17

    @metalfoot I share your excitement and enthusiasm for getting kids involved!! If mine were still little I'd wanna find a way to get them involved in FAWM. But I have run across quite a lot of stuff here that is even a little rough for adults! Stuff I would not want little kids to happen upon! So I just feel that, rather than taming FAWM, it would be better to pursue something new that is more oriented to kids. I guess one issue might be whether there are enough kids interested in this and if that interest would quickly wane. It is a good conversation and one that could result in something cool for kids!!!

  • @lvgd09 Mar 17

    @metalfoot No, you brought up an important topic regarding the group. That said, I agree that FAWM is an adult website.

    Especially dangerous is the internet, and how easy it is for children to get into a free hardcore porm video website....unbelievably easy. In here, the worst you'd see or hear is somebody with a fowl mouth, which most of us adults can handle. Most...but not all...lol

  • @darcistrutt  Mar 17

    I've collabed with my grandchildren, but they have never seen the site. I tell them how many comments the song has and now and then pass on a comment if it is kid-friendly. I'm one of those adults that blush now and then at content... I also post things that I blush at later and wouldn't want my grandkids (or sometimes my kids) to see. 😀

  • @johnstaples  Mar 17

    @lvgd09 said "Especially dangerous is the internet, and how easy it is for children to get into a free hardcore porm video website"

    Ain't that the truth! I am so glad my kids were already teens before it really hit. I honestly don't know how parents protect their kids from everything that is available online today.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 17

    @darcistrutt there are things I have read here that I have trouble commenting on because of the explicit nature of the material!!! 😁

  • @ustaknow Mar 17

    Hey @metalfoot

    Why can't you, with the Treacher, just do it, this model, there? (In real life)

    I remember long ago 😀 , Mom, parents did little projects like that. A bulletin board wall (real world cork wall, etc.) could be the posting board there. If they have hybrid online stuff use that there.

    I realise no one likes to write on paper anymore 😀 but the reviews could be put in a folder stapled to the BB there with the songs and anonymous reviews read, of the lyrics. Demos could be handled in their hybrid system or a single class account to soundcloud handled by the teacher, or you, or teachers aid, etc.

    Then, March, ... if there are ~30 kids? Pick one from each. 30 x 2 mins is an hour. Have a special, after school assembly, where they, you, others, do the 30.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 17

    Yeah, I'm more than willing to do that, @ustaknow. Might be fun. I could even musicate some of the lyrics-only songs if that's what some kids would do.

  • @darcistrutt  Mar 17

    My son is an Elementary School Music teacher. He teaches a summer school class on songwriting. At the end of the class he has put the songs into a CD and sold them to the parents and grandparents to help raise money for the program. He collabs with them of course, but teaches them they can be creative. He did FAWM a few years so I'm betting he uses some of his experiences. I like @ustaknow 's approach. I had my grandkids use storycubes...like I have with my FAWM challenge. The kids could use the "skirmish" format to get a story together and learn about rhyming and/or meter. Lots could be fun without a web site!

  • @tcelliott  Mar 17

    @johnstaples Allow me to elucidate. I suggested an adult "use this site" for a group of kids after contacting Burr Settles for more information if this was plausible.

    Edit to add: I think our misunderstanding arises because it was not my intent that school age children actually use the site. My idea is that a teacher (or other guardian with Burr's approval) post the songs for feedback as a collective and then copy or print any comments that they deem acceptable to take back to the classroom. So you can get feedback from the FAWM community and still have a filter.

    Obviously a children friendly site would be optimal, but who is going to run it and fix it? I don't see that as being a workable option without a lot more support than our lovely site gets.

    And as always, I could be wrong in all of my interpretations. Ultimately Burr (and Eric and Jen etc.) would have to decide what is doable, what is acceptable and what risks they are willing to take on. (Or turn a blind eye to.)

  • @lvgd09 Mar 17

    I use to have the VHS concert....most kids love this guy. This was 20 plus years ago though.....still sounds good.


  • @boyatheart  Mar 18

    I think Burr could probably have a business model here for education establishments to adopt on their own intranets.
    Imagine a high school that has it's own private FAWM (or any other month). FAWM is a great model for sharing, appreciating and giving feedback on the songwriting process, as we all know.
    As an educational tool, this would work internally in any school that wanted to conduct and moderate its own songwriting challenge with all the bells and whistles that the FAWM site provides.
    Burr has the code to make it possible.

  • @kc5 Mar 18

    Songwriting would be a fun tool to encourage writing, language, current events, learning to edit, could be instrumental in organizing plays incorporating songs, introducing career options (all musical options--entertainment lawyer, producer, mixer, choral instruction, songwriting, jingles instrumentalists, album cover artwork) and of course incorporating music theory and practice for music class. It could be counted as part of the "arts". FAWM could be the inspiration and possibly a place to acquire volunteer mentors, and a model for setting up a student version, but considering it a sister site is as close a relationship I would consider. If someone wanted to start a business out of it, the consumer would be the school system as part of a curriculum the teachers include in their Language departments, their culture clubs and their music programs.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 18

    @tcelliott your idea is a great one and one that could be implemented immediately without anyone's approval I would think. But I wonder whether it would be fun for kids to be part of a community they were isolated from? And I wonder if teachers (who likely have plenty of curricula to teach from) would be interested in the extra work to function as go-between? Maybe if an engaged parent (like @metalfoot) volunteered to do that on a weekly basis...collecting songs...posting them...collecting comments...reporting back to class...maybe that would work?

    But your idea is fine! Simple and easy to implement! No changes to FAWM required!

    And to your point...

    "Obviously a children friendly site would be optimal, but who is going to run it and fix it? I don't see that as being a workable option without a lot more support than our lovely site gets."

    Yes, the infrequency of updates and feature additions here would seem to indicate an entirely new site is prolly not very likely.

  • @tcelliott  Mar 18

    To be fair, it takes a lot of work to maintain a site with thousands of users in one month from a staff that started this at a time in their lives when they had much more freedom to do so.

  • @metalfoot  Mar 18

    @johnstaples If this does go ahead with the music teacher, I see that (with me as liaison) being the most likely way it would work.

  • @johnstaples  Mar 18

    @metalfoot please keep us updated as to how this goes! You could be pioneering a model for getting more kids involved in the arts. And here in the USA we will need that since our focus is now on cutting the arts funding (along with meals for seniors and healthcare and everything that doesn't result in a profit for a corporation.)

    You're a great dad and a great person for being willing to help kids like this! Kudos to you!!!

  • @ustaknow Mar 19

    @metalfoot @tcelliott -- I knew what you all meant initially.

    And now since it's been fleshed out more, so to speak... and you may go ahead, etc. ... great.
    -- There's likely plenty of folks like me who will gladly be designated to specifically review the lyrics, and be especially mindful of the author context when doing so. They won't be isolated, they'll be specifically addressed. I think if you get 5-10 here, along with their own there, you've got a useful pilot project for your class 😀

    Nonetheless, if they have hybrid learning, online of their own as well, they can aggregate that input with this, compare and contrast and evaluate the reviews themselves even. Being able to *interpret a Review is a useful skill, too.

    I know when I read a review in March, April or later, it takes on new meaning when less invested, or less specifically, so to speak. They're in a great context actually, for learning. So now they compare, Mom, Teacher, Peer, and "here"... a wonderful thing imo.

  • @helenseviltwin  Mar 22

    I haven't read everything on this thread, so apologies if this has been said.

    The reason FAWM is not open to children is that the are very strict rules around sites aimed at children. They're difficult and with intensive to maintain and, like many lovely ideas for FAWM, is just more hassle than it's worth.

    I suspect going out to schools to encourage teachers to use FAWM on behalf of their students would be asking for trouble. Even if we say the teachers would have to maintain the account, it clearly does effectively start to aim the site at children, which FAWM just cannot do.

  • @zecoop  Mar 22

    So what @lvgd09 @johnstaples and others are *REALLY* saying is that the dot COM and the dot ORG should BOTH be considered 'adult' websites?!?!! LOLOLOLOL..... (well, I did read some steamy lyrics from @ladyred) 😉

    Wait, I thought I was over my FAWMsomnia and FAWMaustion... 😁

  • @ustaknow Mar 22

    Hey @metalfoot

    Here's, imo, an interesting end to end project idea for this, (if do not already have a hybrid, online teaching and learning system) http://kidswebsitecreator.com, -- purely an example, and not vetted by me. The key is access control, and privacy. However, you all then have total control and the kids may directly interact under full control.
    Then I quick searched and got *many, -www.bitlaw.dom/internet/webpag.... (not working example link, use your .gov domains for "bits of law" 😀 )
    -- I am always concerned with "to do/not to do" without * facts on which they may be based. Since you all are CA, host there and enjoy your law guidance.

    My general understanding is a host is just the host and the *individuals using the Host, are personally responsible for their own action. The great aggregator says, [tid bit topics], https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal..., [USA] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busin..., [general parent article] http://www.npr.org/2011/07/11/1376705...

    So again, if you go ahead, you have facts, per se, when you are done, and not personal supposition, opinion. As you can tell, I think, imo, this can all be done, quickly, in 21st Century online teaching and learning context. If you are really interested, and you teacher wants further resources, have him/her create an account here, look around, [focus on FAQs], and I have one or two other brief books for ramping up OLT&L. Many class room teachers do not have curriculum development skills and think online is very different. Some argue this topic, but, it's not different, same elements apply.

    Once you start reading that, < 15min for me, you will see the one or two elements to address. I won't restate them here.

  • @lvgd09 Mar 22

    @zecoop I have to hide my FAWM music from my family (children). I can't compete with their commercial playlist. Also, it's kind of weird hearing your dad singing. I won't put them through that....I did a long time ago....but I won't now.

  • @ustaknow Mar 23

    I blush when see some of the stuff in my 15 yo family members Facebook page, pages, friends accounts of same age, and shares. I only see them because this 15 yo has an unusual, advanced level of global politics sophistication, and speaks, Russian, German, English, and Spanish. She is fascinated with American culture, et al. -- that's my connection. It's where a few songs seeded from, this FAWM.

    Anyway, I stick to their political back and forths, as young teens, and keep any eye out for the other on her behalf.

    -- My point, if I have one is, if I, in my adolescent mind didn't feel safe here, I wouldn't be, reagardless of what may be here. Nothing is "perfect", and shouldn't be.

    I can only be on one "board" at a time, I have limited time to tab over so have abandoned others for here. Also, there is imo near zero krappe to deal with here, -- other than what it's for. I am sure metalfoot didn't expect this good thread! But, he got it here. So, -- good! Onward.

  • @timfatchen  Mar 23

    At some stage in the last 10 years, allowing for my faulty memory, there was one, perhaps two school classes contributing. Still from memory, it was on the @darcistrutt collab model: the teacher was the actual site member, and the kids were kept at arm's length. And, there was definitely a case of a class of disabled folk of varying ages, again with a facilitator providing the necessary buffer between the at-risk individuals and the internet/site. I think that's the way to go, especially in view of the terms governing the site. (Not that that's ever stopped enthusiastic 14 y.o's from disguising themselves and participating in FAWM.)

  • @karlsburg25  Mar 28

    I think this would be a brilliant classroom tool if it was set up as a separate entity across schools throughout the world. You could have it as part of a scheme of work for a particular year group for 6 weeks but you could also have it running for anyone who wants to get involved, like those who maybe haven't chosen music as a subjet but love creating. If i ever become a teacher again I shall look into this.

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